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everyone alex karras I'm skeptical here

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today on the show I have Kat Forbes the

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creator filmmaker of the simulation

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hypothesis fantastic movie serious

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scientific movie that as the title

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suggests explores the idea that maybe

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people are living in something closer to

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a virtual reality simulation than what

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we think of as our material reality

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fascinating idea let's take a look at a

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clip from the opening that kind of sets

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is reality real or can we be living in a

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could the universe be more like a dream

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than we ever imagined remember you are

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how can science help us answer these

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welcome to the simulation hypothesis so

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it looks pretty interesting that whether

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you're a believer or not it's an

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interesting hypothesis and then take a

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look at the guy behind the film here is

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Ken's film production company fair wind

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films check this out we are a group of

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scientists philosophers theologians and

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artists who believe that common ground

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integration and synthesis of knowledge

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from a wide variety of disciplines is

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not only possible but necessary for the

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future of humanity heady stuff and if

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you want to bounce over and check out

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the academia page you'll find out this

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cat Forbes guy is the real deal

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finishing up his PhD at the university

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of maine research topics fascinating

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fascinating stuff look at this some of

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the papers he's published the emergent

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christ narrative cosmology process I

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mean we could have a lot of discussions

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on a lot of different topics with this

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guy but the point is he is heavy-duty

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knows what he's talking about serious

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academic who's made a very interesting

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film so it's gonna be fun talking to him

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I'm really looking forward to it

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let's get on with the interview today we

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welcome Kent Forbes - skeptic Oh to talk

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about his terrific film the simulation

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experience which as the name suggests

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explores this idea that we've kind of

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touched on in this show a couple times

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that the best way to understand reality

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is really through understanding it a

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sort of simulation computer simulation

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it's a very intriguing idea and a great

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guest with some terrific ideas welcome

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Kent thanks for joining me on skeptic oh

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thank you Alex so why don't we start

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with just the basics tell us a little

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bit about yourself and how you came to

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start fair wind films an interesting

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name for your company and as I told

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folks in the video introduction quite an

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impressive kind of

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mission statement you have for that so

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maybe you can roll that in and that

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about your academic background too

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because people need to understand that

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you are bringing a level of scientific

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and academic rigor to this topic that we

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don't usually see and that's one of the

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things that's really refreshing and

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terrific about the movie and we'll get

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into a little bit is you know you gotta

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buckle up your thinking cap here and be

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willing to at least tiptoe into some

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science that you drag people through but

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that's either the full assertion of your

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article is or your argument is a

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scientific argument in favor of your

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position there I've laid too much on the

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table but let's roll it all the way back

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and tell us a little bit about yourself

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your background now I was raised as an

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atheist okay so I don't have a dog in

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the fight

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religiously right and we all have a dog

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in the fight but you're saying you

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didn't have it from your childhood or

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upper anger well yeah I mean I still

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really don't I'd like to think of myself

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as a pretty objective open-minded person

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but the assumptions that I was going

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with we're just the major assumptions of

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you know Western society you know which

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is what you're taught in school which is

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basically materialist science and if you

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believe anything else you're kind of

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foolish or you're investing in mythos or

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whatever while I was in Berkeley I

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became aware of ions which is Veen

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writtens Institute of noetic Sciences

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and then also the center for theology

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and in Natural Sciences which is a an

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institute set up to study the boundary

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between religious thinking and

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scientific thinking and sort of how

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those two areas of thought interlink and

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relate and clash that that's interesting

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to know that that's your background

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because the film just approaches it from

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a very straightforward standpoint of

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saying let me share with you the data

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let me share with you the history which

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i think is phenomenally important you do

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a fabulous job of tracing this history

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and letting us know how our

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understanding of this science

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has been obscured in just the most a

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kind of deliberate way that there's a

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history there that you reveal that is

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well known but just not well taught so

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I'm asking you to maybe shift gears for

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a minute but respond to that what was

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that process like for you discovering

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that the science of quantum physics I

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love the point in the film that you have

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and I'll probably show a clip of it

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where you know you say here's the 1927

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conference what is that conference the

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Solvay conference Solvay conference in

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york like here are 16 Nobel Prize

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winners and you're going through them

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one at a time and pointing them out

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you're saying this was the issue of the

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time but the greatest thinkers of

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Einstein of Niels Bohr of all these

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people this was the central point and

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yet our modern science pretends like oh

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no that's that's was never really an

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issue or it's always resolved this is

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Erwin Schrodinger in 1926 he was

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teaching physics at the University of

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Zurich where Einstein had gotten his

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ph.d he wrote a paper introducing wave

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mechanics as an alternative to

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Heisenberg's matrix mechanics

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it was Schrodinger who first claimed

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that two particles could be entangled

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and that they would behave as one system

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as one thing mind you even if they were

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separated in space this meant that any

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interaction with observation or

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measurement of one of the entangled

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particles would cause an instantaneous

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effect in the other even at great

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distances across space up to an

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including infinite distance in space

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for the majority of physicists who were

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after all completely invested in a

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materialist view of the universe this

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was truly unacceptable and simply could

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not be true even if all the equations

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worked

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they just needed to put their heads

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together and figure out what was really

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going on with this newfangled wave and

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matrix mechanics Einstein took

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particular interest in this problem

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because it was he who had let the genie

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out of the bottle with his photon and

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the 1927

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Solvay conference was held to solve

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these new problems in defining the

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properties and behavior of photons and

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electrons talk about some heavy-hitters

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of the 29 people pictured here 17 one

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Nobel Prizes here is Madame Curie next

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to her is Max Planck here is Einstein

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who by this time had overturned Isaac

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Newton's theory of gravity with his own

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general theory of relativity and he was

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by far the most famous scientist in the

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world here are the young upstarts are

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when Schrodinger and Werner Heisenberg

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the ones who started all this trouble

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and here is Niels Bohr caught in the

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middle between the youngsters and the

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older traditionalists led by Einstein

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during the conference borin Einstein

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began a discussion about the true nature

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of reality that would become the

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greatest rivalry in modern science speak

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to that for a minute would you well sure

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I mean I'm gonna try to put it into the

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context of emotional bias at the time

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those the the greatest thinkers were

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having to confront their own bias right

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and they they came out of it I think

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with the best possible conclusions that

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could be expected from any human beings

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that were faced with this dilemma it was

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a paradigm shifting moment to think that

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this is happening and that long ago and

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that it still hasn't filtered down to

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the classrooms you know to the science

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classroom I mean it's unbelievable now

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Einstein was able to hang on to his bias

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towards materialism right until you know

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literally months before his death and

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and you know the the mounting evidence

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and the tipping point in the community

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and the consensus amongst physicists had

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already taken place and here he is

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they're like just rejecting that

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stubbornly

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and this is Einstein a person this has

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not taught this way this is not how this

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is passed down to us is that history

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that you're saying it is the truth but

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it's it's obscured in a way and the way

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that it's passed out is that there was

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this

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debate and we don't know and Einstein

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never really could decide but right yeah

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sure I mean it's it's it skipped over in

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a way to minimize the the conflict to

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sort of suggest that no no no there's

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there's this overriding consensus from

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the beginning and that is not true at

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all as as outside of the box as Einstein

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was it took him right until the end but

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he did shift his thinking and very

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clearly sense of when his correspondence

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with peers at the end of his life that

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you know what we need some kind of a new

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theory that can speak to the problem of

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matter is not the base constituent of

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reality but we don't even have a way of

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talking about this so that's what the

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sort of information theory and the

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simulation hypothesis is Einsteins dream

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in a way because it fills that gap

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perfectly and I wish he were alive to

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see how that has come around and I

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believe he would be satisfied with it

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now I kind of wandered off the topic

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thereby I pulled you off the topic let

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me pull you let me pull you back to the

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film sure absolutely and there's also

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the idea of progress behind all this

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ever since the Enlightenment period the

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materialist paradigm has been

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incrementally built up as a way of

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understanding the you know the

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experience that were having okay and

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they had a lot of success with it that

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was designed to undermine the sort of

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divine right to rule of monarchs and you

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know there were terrible abuses of power

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by the Pope's and so forth that that's

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feared this whole you know mechanical

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view of the universe as a way of

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undermining the narratives of the church

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and I think that that it was justified

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at the time now after hundreds of years

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of building up this alternative to find

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that a close examination of physical

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matter reveals a connection to

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consciousness which actually undermines

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strict materialism it's a little bit

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much and I think it's completely

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understandable for people who are

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invested in materialism to be skeptical

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that such you know because they are

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afraid that they're going to be

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reinforcing the the claims of those

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religious folks and who were then guess

277
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they see me told you so we've been

278
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:48,950
saying this all along and so you know

279
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back to the whole emotional bias thing

280
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:54,410
so Kent let me take you in a couple of

281
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different directions here along a

282
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skeptical line if you will so you know

283
00:13:02,410 --> 00:13:00,350
I'd like to push people a little bit and

284
00:13:05,170 --> 00:13:02,420
I do have to push you on one point and

285
00:13:08,860 --> 00:13:05,180
that is the film the simulation

286
00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:08,870
hypothesis is fantastic as I said rich

287
00:13:14,620 --> 00:13:12,200
in science but also very accessible and

288
00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:14,630
break some things down that folks have

289
00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:16,640
probably heard about a dozen times

290
00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:18,710
before the double slit experiment the

291
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:21,260
observer effect quantum entanglement and

292
00:13:27,010 --> 00:13:24,320
you just do a fabulous job of explaining

293
00:13:29,310 --> 00:13:27,020
that and then more importantly as you're

294
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just talking about explaining how that

295
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:31,910
completely contradicts undermines

296
00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:35,710
falsifies materialism naturalism

297
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physicalism all this simplistic you are

298
00:13:43,510 --> 00:13:41,060
a biological robot in a meaningless

299
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:43,520
universe stuff that is the way that I

300
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:46,130
like to put it but and you know there is

301
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:48,890
a but coming and all that are you

302
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:53,120
stretching the metaphor too far I always

303
00:13:59,080 --> 00:13:55,250
get a little bit nervous when we say

304
00:14:02,680 --> 00:13:59,090
things like therefore we've falsified

305
00:14:04,930 --> 00:14:02,690
this it has some aspects of the

306
00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:04,940
simulation model from as philosophical

307
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:07,430
standpoint kind of fitting better

308
00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:11,570
therefore we live in a pixelated world

309
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:15,700
that works like a computer simulation I

310
00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:18,320
wonder sometimes if we're stretching the

311
00:14:25,770 --> 00:14:20,540
metaphor if we're making a leap there

312
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:25,780
that is one unnecessary and two maybe

313
00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:29,600
completely unfounded particularly if we

314
00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:31,670
jump over and look at it from a

315
00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:34,510
spiritual standpoint and what the

316
00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:37,670
extended reality folks are telling us

317
00:14:41,650 --> 00:14:40,070
that is the folks who are scientifically

318
00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:41,660
more or less looking

319
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:43,520
what's happening in these through

320
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:45,500
spiritually transformative experiences

321
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:48,110
and all the rest so could you maybe try

322
00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:50,150
and fit those two together are you

323
00:14:54,190 --> 00:14:52,190
stretching the metaphor too far and do

324
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:54,200
we have to consider extended

325
00:15:00,880 --> 00:14:57,650
consciousness and spirituality able to

326
00:15:02,890 --> 00:15:00,890
choose the title of artist for myself

327
00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:02,900
because it provides the most possible

328
00:15:09,190 --> 00:15:06,230
freedom to discuss these ideas right I

329
00:15:10,690 --> 00:15:09,200
don't claim to be a scientist I play I

330
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:10,700
don't claim to be a theologian or

331
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:12,890
philosopher I claim to be an artist and

332
00:15:18,430 --> 00:15:14,870
so what I do is I work with aesthetic

333
00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:18,440
values okay to elicit emotional

334
00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:22,270
responses hopefully you know uplifting

335
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:26,360
so now my personal human response to

336
00:15:33,580 --> 00:15:30,440
what you're saying is hey if whether

337
00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:33,590
there's any empirical data or some kind

338
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:35,750
of strong correspondence between what a

339
00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:38,000
person's feeling and some actual entity

340
00:15:42,250 --> 00:15:40,100
that's that's we're transferring

341
00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:42,260
information across and kind of veil or

342
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:45,350
something I'm not you know this is a

343
00:15:50,770 --> 00:15:48,170
very old idea this is maybe the oldest

344
00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:50,780
idea as far as the human beings are

345
00:15:54,130 --> 00:15:52,640
concerned you know with with burying of

346
00:15:56,620 --> 00:15:54,140
the dead and send the idea of an

347
00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:56,630
afterlife and so forth right it's that

348
00:16:02,230 --> 00:15:58,970
idea is not gonna go away should it be

349
00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:02,240
taken seriously in social sciences

350
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:04,790
absolutely should it be taken seriously

351
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:08,210
in family counseling I think so should

352
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:11,090
yeah taken seriously in physics I mean

353
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:13,490
the implications are there in quantum

354
00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:15,490
physics you know I just had this

355
00:16:22,510 --> 00:16:20,840
conversation with a guy who is name's

356
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:22,520
dr. Sean Carroll maybe you've run across

357
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:23,090
him

358
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:25,970
Caltech Harvard trained physicist number

359
00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:28,370
one best-selling book yes yes science

360
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:31,070
right now interviewed staunch

361
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,250
materialist is not backing off one bit

362
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:36,800
we had this discussion in which I said

363
00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:39,890
well kind of long lines of our movie

364
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:42,950
I said well Niels Bohr in Schrodinger

365
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:46,370
and many of the leading people saw this

366
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:48,770
issue as consciousness collapsing the

367
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,810
wavefunction as central to the

368
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,120
philosophical underpinnings of quantum

369
00:16:57,389 --> 00:16:55,279
physics and he said no no

370
00:17:00,100 --> 00:16:57,399
he said no you got it completely wrong

371
00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:00,110
they didn't think that at all what we

372
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,550
went back and looked and I showed him

373
00:17:04,899 --> 00:17:03,680
that after the show I should have you

374
00:17:08,350 --> 00:17:04,909
know that's not true you're just

375
00:17:11,649 --> 00:17:08,360
completely I don't know how you alright

376
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:11,659
get a PhD from Harvard in physics and

377
00:17:16,059 --> 00:17:13,730
not know these things but he didn't know

378
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:16,069
these things but the the real point I

379
00:17:22,539 --> 00:17:19,970
guess is just that what Schrodinger says

380
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:22,549
and Morse is almost the same thing but

381
00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:25,990
Schrodinger says it directly

382
00:17:33,610 --> 00:17:30,350
consciousness must survive death he just

383
00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:33,620
says it completely so from a physics

384
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:37,700
standpoint this idea is not out it comes

385
00:17:42,159 --> 00:17:39,650
with the package I guess what I'm saying

386
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:42,169
not just in this surviving bodily death

387
00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:46,640
comes with the package doesn't it yeah

388
00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:48,260
absolutely and part of the problem is

389
00:17:58,590 --> 00:17:54,440
the divvying up of philosophy into the

390
00:18:02,649 --> 00:17:58,600
sciences and you know psychology and

391
00:18:04,779 --> 00:18:02,659
religion it's ah Sophie the thing is

392
00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:04,789
that all philosophy and Plato understood

393
00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:10,190
that ideas about what constitutes an

394
00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:12,980
object in a self and a reflection and

395
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:17,030
you know that must precede the

396
00:18:23,529 --> 00:18:22,130
experience okay so obviously it follows

397
00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:23,539
the experience as well so yes

398
00:18:26,649 --> 00:18:25,100
consciousness survives because it

399
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:26,659
preceded the experience to begin with

400
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:27,679
appreciate everything you're saying but

401
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:29,990
I am gonna pull you back to the question

402
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:33,110
are you stretching the metaphor too far

403
00:18:38,139 --> 00:18:35,450
when you say we live in a pixelated

404
00:18:43,630 --> 00:18:38,149
world and it works like a computer

405
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:43,640
simulation you know a lot of hay is made

406
00:18:46,570 --> 00:18:45,590
with this idea that consciousness is

407
00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:46,580
like a computer

408
00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:49,070
I think his the site the history of

409
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:51,230
science shows us that whatever our

410
00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:53,360
latest technology is is that's what we

411
00:18:58,090 --> 00:18:55,700
latch on to we say oh we're just like

412
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:58,100
that you know we're just like the river

413
00:19:02,049 --> 00:18:59,840
you know before we had any technology

414
00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:02,059
and then oh we're just like the machine

415
00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:04,100
when the machine and now we're just like

416
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:05,000
the computer

417
00:19:08,419 --> 00:19:06,770
oh we're just like a computer simulation

418
00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:08,429
are we stretching the metaphor

419
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:10,980
far well it depends on the individual

420
00:19:16,279 --> 00:19:13,919
that's receiving that narrative right I

421
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:16,289
mean how are they receiving it what kind

422
00:19:20,269 --> 00:19:17,850
of emotional response are they having it

423
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:20,279
is it possible that the the metaphor is

424
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,600
being stretched too far sure of course

425
00:19:26,299 --> 00:19:24,720
it is but but when you're designing a

426
00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:26,309
narrative to elicit an emotional

427
00:19:32,269 --> 00:19:28,679
response you back yourself into this

428
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:32,279
corner where you have to provide some

429
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:35,190
kind of logical conclusion otherwise

430
00:19:40,879 --> 00:19:38,100
it's just empty meaningless drivel right

431
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:40,889
so you have to like wind up somewhere

432
00:19:44,989 --> 00:19:43,230
and that's the kind of place that you

433
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:44,999
have to have to wind up at because

434
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,940
that's the imagery and the metaphor that

435
00:19:51,139 --> 00:19:49,440
works for people that are having this

436
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:51,149
experience in the information age that

437
00:19:55,399 --> 00:19:53,490
we live in now right so you've provided

438
00:19:57,850 --> 00:19:55,409
an example that's already within their

439
00:20:01,489 --> 00:19:57,860
experience if they can relate the

440
00:20:05,869 --> 00:20:01,499
narrative to and go oh I see yes this

441
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:05,879
could be I could be an avatar in a game

442
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:08,610
or you know I could be a character in

443
00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:12,419
another beings dream or whatever see

444
00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:14,100
what I'm saying but you know I do it's

445
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:16,740
awesome from your lips to rakers Wells

446
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:19,919
ears that's what I say because it's like

447
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:22,110
but I guess that goes with where you're

448
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:24,090
going with your PhD and this kind of

449
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:27,090
broadly looking at how we respond to new

450
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,129
information and integrate it in because

451
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:30,960
I think you've captured it beautifully

452
00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:34,590
is that it it works for us in a way and

453
00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:38,220
it matters less the extent to which it

454
00:20:44,060 --> 00:20:41,580
that the narrative conforms to something

455
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,070
we're going to call a real or anything

456
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,559
like that it propels us forward is what

457
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:48,480
I hear you saying in a way that that

458
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:51,059
relates is relatable for a lot of us and

459
00:20:55,009 --> 00:20:53,220
what's really real is the emotional

460
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:55,019
experience that you have yeah there you

461
00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:55,200
go

462
00:21:00,590 --> 00:20:58,440
if you feel satisfied at the end of

463
00:21:04,129 --> 00:21:00,600
receiving the narrative that's what's

464
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:04,139
real you're you're scared in a scary

465
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:07,769
dream and your fear is real the thing

466
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:10,110
that's chasing you is part of your dream

467
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:11,820
but the emotion that you're experiencing

468
00:21:16,609 --> 00:21:13,740
is the only reality that can ever be

469
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:16,619
traced back to anything is this PhD at

470
00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:20,340
Maine is that right yeah and so how is

471
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:21,500
that coming along

472
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:24,320
how's this film project working out for

473
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,930
you and what do you have going on in the

474
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:28,640
future in terms of films or other

475
00:21:33,550 --> 00:21:31,610
projects I'm sure you're probably bogged

476
00:21:35,230 --> 00:21:33,560
down and trying to wrap up that PhD I

477
00:21:36,340 --> 00:21:35,240
know that's a lot of work but do you

478
00:21:39,550 --> 00:21:36,350
have some film projects you're working

479
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:39,560
on as well the PhD is going very well my

480
00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:41,810
advisers name is dr. Tina Passman she's

481
00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:45,230
fantastic and we're dealing with it's an

482
00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:47,390
interdisciplinary ph.d and so we're

483
00:21:50,410 --> 00:21:48,980
trying to pull together people from a

484
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:50,420
lot of different disciplines and reach a

485
00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:54,710
consensus that there is a thing called

486
00:21:59,440 --> 00:21:57,740
emotional bias and it affects us in the

487
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:59,450
way that we accept ideas and then the

488
00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:02,000
way that we act on those ideas and the

489
00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:03,860
kind of narratives that we reinforce and

490
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:05,990
the kind of narratives that we try to

491
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:08,930
diminish in our in our social circle in

492
00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:12,890
our consensus group okay yes that's a

493
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:15,710
lot of work and I that I'm kind of just

494
00:22:19,450 --> 00:22:18,050
putting that over there I still have two

495
00:22:20,590 --> 00:22:19,460
years technically to finish it but I

496
00:22:25,660 --> 00:22:20,600
think it's going to be wrapped up here

497
00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:25,670
within the next maybe six months PhD

498
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:30,260
students always say that it's been so

499
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:32,210
long getting it to the point where it is

500
00:22:36,910 --> 00:22:35,210
now yes oh yeah I could talk about just

501
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:36,920
the process that I've been going through

502
00:22:44,050 --> 00:22:40,010
since I left Berkeley and and proposed

503
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:44,060
this idea it's it's changed tremendously

504
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:47,570
and I knew there would be some problems

505
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:49,490
getting people to agree but I never

506
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:52,310
thought that the content of the concept

507
00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:55,850
itself would be so divisive to try to

508
00:23:00,340 --> 00:22:58,190
get people to agree that human beings

509
00:23:02,770 --> 00:23:00,350
have emotions and that if bias is what

510
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:02,780
you accept it's like nobody wants to

511
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:04,580
reinforce that idea because they feel

512
00:23:08,770 --> 00:23:06,620
like they are endangering the validity

513
00:23:10,540 --> 00:23:08,780
of their position in whatever discipline

514
00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:10,550
they're in because what if you're a

515
00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:12,860
scientist oh my gosh that invalidates my

516
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:15,740
scientific thing if you're in religion

517
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:17,210
oh well wait a minute now you're

518
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:18,890
reducing my religious position to a

519
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,190
narrative you know you know so it's like

520
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:23,840
nobody wants to admit they're human

521
00:23:30,910 --> 00:23:28,210
nobody wants to admit their bias and Hey

522
00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:30,920
but anyway and then so as far as film

523
00:23:38,110 --> 00:23:34,630
goes this is kind of a secret but I'm

524
00:23:41,650 --> 00:23:38,120
working with Bernardo castra on science

525
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:41,660
film called escape from the cult of

526
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:44,690
materialism that really talks more about

527
00:23:50,110 --> 00:23:47,090
the social constructs and the sort of

528
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:50,120
cult-like mentality in terms of coercion

529
00:23:57,310 --> 00:23:53,840
and brainwashing that allows the false

530
00:24:00,010 --> 00:23:57,320
claims of materialism to be carried

531
00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:00,020
through and maintained in a social

532
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:02,540
system the way that false teachings do

533
00:24:09,730 --> 00:24:05,840
in any other cult environment so you

534
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:09,740
know hostak starting from grade school

535
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:12,290
you're indoctrinated into this

536
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:15,290
materialist you know viewpoint and then

537
00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:17,960
information is basically closed off at

538
00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:20,990
least it always was okay and we you know

539
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:23,060
in my life you didn't really have access

540
00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:24,890
to information like young people do

541
00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:27,020
today with the internet but the cult

542
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:28,700
really tries to limit your information

543
00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:31,520
and shut off any views that would

544
00:24:37,630 --> 00:24:35,030
contradict their truth claims and if

545
00:24:42,850 --> 00:24:37,640
anyone knows this you do I mean you know

546
00:24:48,610 --> 00:24:42,860
people will respond negatively and put

547
00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:48,620
out negative reviews or whatever you

548
00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:51,980
know trying to prevent people from even

549
00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:55,310
looking at alternative viewpoints that

550
00:24:59,530 --> 00:24:57,230
contradict the materialist view and this

551
00:25:01,540 --> 00:24:59,540
is just it would be expected in any cult

552
00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:01,550
environment any information that tends

553
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:03,860
to contradict the claims of the cult is

554
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:06,490
going to be viewed with suspicion right

555
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:08,930
so yeah that's called escape from the

556
00:25:14,370 --> 00:25:12,050
cult of materialism and that'll probably

557
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:14,380
be done sometimes september/october

558
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:17,210
fantastic Bernardo has been a great

559
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:18,770
friend of the show and he's been on many

560
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,710
times and I think you couldn't partner

561
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:23,840
with a better person to kind of bring

562
00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:25,700
forth that idea so that's fantastic

563
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:27,980
we'll definitely have to have both you

564
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,200
guys back on let me wrap that up so we

565
00:25:34,420 --> 00:25:32,480
can talk about it more but until that

566
00:25:36,130 --> 00:25:34,430
next time can I've taken a lot of your

567
00:25:38,170 --> 00:25:36,140
time here but I really appreciate it

568
00:25:39,370 --> 00:25:38,180
and I'd super appreciate your work and

569
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:39,380
what you've brought forward to people

570
00:25:42,910 --> 00:25:40,250
it's terrific

571
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:42,920
thank you Alex I'm a big fan thank you

572
00:25:47,419 --> 00:25:45,260
very much

573
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:47,429
everybody I hope you liked the video if

574
00:25:51,260 --> 00:25:49,320
you want more please check out the

575
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:51,270
website all sorts of stuff on

576
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:53,450
consciousness science spirituality

577
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,120
skepticism many many interviews all over

578
00:26:02,539 --> 00:25:59,520
300 of them on the website so be sure to

579
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:02,549
check it out also subscribe like to all

580
00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:04,350
that good stuff tell other people about